Feeling Shame
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MakersDozn Offline
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#1
Sad  Feeling Shame
I'm feeling a lot of shame. I always felt that I had to be perfect, and I've come to see just how deep my feelings are about the mistakes I've made. I wish it didn't hurt so much.

I wish I could stay in my inner world, but I know I need to be a responsible adult to regain my self-respect. And I don't know whether any self-respect I do gain will be just an illusion. I don't trust my judgment. And everything feels like a big mess.

Charity Sad
02-11-2013, 05:41 PM
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nats Offline
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#2
RE: Feeling Shame
hi Charity,
it's really hard, isn't it? most of us struggle with this one too.
Blush Learn how to manage conflict, because the greater the level you can tolerate, the more freedom you will retain - E. Walsh Smile
02-12-2013, 05:21 PM
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tweeter Offline
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#3
Caution  RE: Feeling Shame
(02-11-2013, 05:41 PM)MakersDozn Wrote: I'm feeling a lot of shame. I always felt that I had to be perfect, and I've come to see just how deep my feelings are about the mistakes I've made. I wish it didn't hurt so much.

I wish I could stay in my inner world, but I know I need to be a responsible adult to regain my self-respect. And I don't know whether any self-respect I do gain will be just an illusion. I don't trust my judgment. And everything feels like a big mess.

Charity Sad

I feel shame too. Though it's not necessarily bonded with the demand for perfection by some people in my life. Interestingly, for me, it's more a need for a moderate degree of order in my environment. Not total order or control, cause that's not worth the trouble and feels restrictive, ultimately boring. Absolute Perfection for me doesn't exist and never did.

Sure, I like to do things right. The same degree of rightness doesn't apply to everything. I still remember cruel criticism received because I wasn't perfect in everything. Thing is, those people made it impossible to meet their standards all the time, and were also plagued by having to compulsively meet them. Some were successful in life (at least outwardly). When you're on the receiving end, it can be seen as a controlling behavior meant to keep a person subordinate in some way. If by some miracle one succeeds in the task(s), the demander might be quick to take most or all of the spotlight/credit.

The greatest extents of my internalization of the mother's perfectionism, pathological imo, was to do copy editing, which I didn't like, but that was my livelihood. Another was a degree of hypercritical feedback with an edge. Got on my nerves. That's over.

I've been used by people, and deferred to the wishes of the wrong people. I've fought other's battles and been used as a scapegoat, by people who needed an excuse to have more freedom in a restrictive situation which they had no intention of changing, even if it was unhealthy not to do so, and who blamed me for their behaviors because they could while denying that this was being done. I was placed on a role that I had not agreed to play.
The last instance of this caused me to retreat and rebuild. One result of this rebuilding will involve facing a major error out there, by moderately stating my case in an official venu. If I'm lucky, that will be as far as it goes, because that's best for all and all I need. There has been considerable shame and fear associated with this situation, but not because I made a mistake, which I did. But, because of what has been said about me, which is untrue.

Where is all of this coming from. Hard to connect. Bottom line is that for all the driving to be perfect by others, no one gave a fig about my need to be perfect in being myself, which is very different. I was trained for failure, and I seem to be able to accomplish nothing else, except for achieving more self understanding and empathy than I ever dreamed. Thing is that I can't get forgiveness for a failure to achieve or thrive, even when I take responsibility for being what I was, am. I continue to be followed by a library, so it seems, of misquotes, misunderstandings, and misrepresentations of what and who I am by those who can't be bothered and want to pigeonhole me in a way that I am hamstrung just in case I'm right, but not given opportunity to prove it. Sometimes I can't prove it. People lie too. I feel that part of the failure is mine, to have allowed myself to sink in station so, and to be so trusting when another person was emotionally *b*s*ng me.

I tried and every time I approached the beginning of success, I've been thwarted by another person's jealousy,or need to own me, or lack of respect for my person so that he/she could look good, or by the tape of failure which mother had instilled with words and b**t*ngs. Gotten so bad that I went on a personal retreat in NM and NYC. Oh, the docs are no better here, but I stay away from them as much as I can, because I know they can't help me.
Last month, I stopped the tape and tore it from my psyche. I remembered that moment in my childhood when I gave up. I knew of it before, but not in that context.

Before then, I continued to fight back as I could, but didn't recover. Got into martial arts, where I felt a new drive based on the concept of correctness. Well, I didn't fit in. There wasn't anything the matter with me, but I found myself torn down, because I was beginning to understand, and that wasn't desirable. The loyalty demanded, which was not relevant to the level of teaching given or to the intent of the times, the respect demanded which was not returned, wore me down, again.

I hit bottom two years ago last month, when I could not act in order to stop potential v**l*nc* from fm against myself and another person (who, in turn, had done something which I could forgive, but at the same time needed more reassurance from in order to take a chance). I was a situation which took me months to understand. And, yeah, I'm ashamed because I hit the wall. Well, I peeled myself off. I'm sick and old and can't do much, but I'm proud of what I've accomplished inside and allowing into 3D. I don't think most people understand me and I will accept that.


Trusting in one's own judgment takes training. That's responsible living.
For me, I needed to see to my own safety better. In my world that was the antithesis of courage. But, generally, to put self in peril unless professionally trained and employed, is not too smart. Can be said to be perseverance gone too far, for too little.

The decision to trust others is tricky, and trusting in one's decision to trust can be a trip too. There are so many ways it can go wrong.
So, my opinion is that the number of situations in which I am vulnerable at this point has shrunken. I know where I can trip over my feet, and I accept that I'm feeling and that's okay. Often it's a matter of knowing when to leave, as well as when not to enter to begin with. Leads to a lot of questions? It should.

The rules by which one trusts one's own judgement are not the same in all situations. I mean, I don't react to everything the same in making decisions. Judgement is a stronger word and fits here.
I think that my error has been in considering the prevention of sadness or harm to others more important by far, in some pivotal situations, than what happens to me.
Also, I didn't realize how dishonest or cruel someone could be to me, as well as to themselves. That a person who claimed to be my friend could be as bad as an enemy. That a friend who wouldn't put my heart's desire first and allow me my legitimate freedom, instead choosing to essentially take my life away, can't be trusted anymore.
You can know a person for a long time, but the times change and this brings out aspects of character.

Trust in one's own judgement needs a rational anchor too -- what is important to you. I guess for me, it's trying to do what feels right (and that doesn't necessarily mean fair). One's deepest motivations, needs, as they attach to behaviors in their service; weaknesses of sp. and mind (seen in a compassionate light, not condemning) are just as important as realizing the track records of all concerned.


Late in 2010, I failed to protect someone because I was ill and my energy dropped d**d on me. It isn't that I didn't know what to do, or that I was afraid. It had to do with judgment based on my collapse and hence, inability to act appropriately in what would have become a physical conflict. I won't go thru the scene online. That day, I felt drained and ill to begin with. I was still reeling from news of the passing of someone I had wanted to reconnect with for my work. I was lost. No confidence.
My not being able to function at all in this crowded public situation was a fact. My knowledge of myself and what I could do if I "connected," and that these abilities were waning because of illness and interference, was not faulty. At that moment, I was out of control (either in not being able to function, or in doubting if I was well enough to act dispassionately when the situation was going to come back towards me). My previously decided upon rule was to remove myself from a situation under conditions of my not being in control of myself either because I was being driven by anger (generally not a problem) or because of failure of the system which might snap back (and then what?). It wasn't safe for people around me.
My judgment did not fail, but I did. That is the shame I feel. There's a difference. I think it's important for you to get the difference.

I know this post is tedious, with a lot missing because much of my work is nonverbal and some other things are not for here.

But, my guess is that your lack of trust in your own judgment has to do with safety. Look, in life, at least in mine, the same kinds of factors in relationships arise repeatedly and sometimes I forget how they're similar. Or, I see it and then forget kind of, because there's something I want that seems to come paired with it. That's part of how it works with me. According to my framework, this is coming from previous lives.

I take responsibility for everything I do, say and think. I can't do the same for other people. I can't let another person make me the cause his mistakes. If I've played a role, I'll admit it. I expect the same from other people. Well..... That's part of responsible living.

The other important facet is cooperation, which requires some common goal(s) for which all who are mature enough in age to bear behavioral responsibilities.

I don't think you should be ashamed because you don't know how to trust your own judgment. This, in itself, is a judgment. It's valid. Instead of shame, and I understand what you are feeling I think, it's my opinion that you need to find training in making all kinds of decisions and forming judgment rules to underlie them. Safety, as important as it is, is an incomplete foundation. The rounding out comes in achieving requisite safety along with the ability to live. I think you know that.

I have had help. It began with martial arts, on to Al Anon, and now, separating as much as I can from disruptive people, as I realign/re-center to just before I gave up as a young child. It's working for me. I'm not presenting it as a general formula.

I know what I need in many ways, and if opportunities come my way I won't let go. Just wish I could have had the successes I had in myself to achieve, mistakes and all.
In 3D, I am reluctant to talk about myself because of this lack of success, and my interests which are not suitable for general exchange.

These times are not good for humanity in general, imo. It's a tough era to do what you want to do. We've been living in an increasingly crisis-ridden society for too long.

I don't need for you to respond to this tome at length. I'm just talking to you.

tweeter
"Even the very emptiest of the emptiest
Has a false bottom, a false bottom."
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2013, 05:02 PM by tweeter.)
02-14-2013, 04:32 PM
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MakersDozn Offline
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#4
Friendship/Support  RE: Feeling Shame
(02-12-2013, 05:21 PM)nats Wrote: hi Charity,
it's really hard, isn't it? most of us struggle with this one too.

Yes, nats, it is. Thank you for reminding me that I'm not the only one who struggles with these feelings.

Take care,

Charity
02-16-2013, 09:11 PM
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MakersDozn Offline
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Friendship/Support  RE: Feeling Shame
I don't think you should be ashamed because you don't know how to trust your own judgment. This, in itself, is a judgment. It's valid. Instead of shame, and I understand what you are feeling I think, it's my opinion that you need to find training in making all kinds of decisions and forming judgment rules to underlie them. Safety, as important as it is, is an incomplete foundation. The rounding out comes in achieving requisite safety along with the ability to live. I think you know that.

Thank you tweeter. I appreciate hearing this.

We're working on these issues in T.

Take care,

Charity
02-16-2013, 09:13 PM
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tweeter Offline
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Friendship/Support  RE: Feeling Shame
Charity,
I'm really pleased that you got thru what I wrote, the bulk of which probably made little sense to anyone other than myself. And, that I had sincere encouragement to offer.

Thing is that I made a stated internal intention three or four years ago, and got there. I didn't want to leave this world in the same emotional/sp. condition in which I found myself. The Intention can be general, but clear. The psyche will follow it, as will the mind. I had no idea where I was headed.
Determination of Direction can be helped along by a simple question. I asked: How I had gotten to where I am now from where I began in this lifetime?
An exhaustive cataloging was not necessary. But, a minimum amount of knowledge of pivotal point location, along with a lot introspection was.
If I had used a perfectionistic approach, it never would have happened for me as I needed it to. The heart, mind and spirit are not in the realm of inches and meters. It's a different mindset, for me.
However, those who measure themselves according to rules derived from cultural/sp laws, or, strictly according to what other people think of them (with or without the aforementioned laws), are working from a more codified substrate, and in some ways towards a different personal destination. That is, as close an approximation as possible to a stated vision of perfection. As an individualist, I can't do this without denying myself.

Other questions popped up over the years, but weren't successfully dealt with, until I decided that the negative introject had to go. And I mean Go! Otherwise, it could truly become part of me, according to my views.

How was I getting in my own way, and what were the internal mechanisms? That has been pretty much figured out.

What of the pattern of jealous, indifferently selfish and cruel people who routinely enter my life and pretty much ruin it and me? Why? How to change this? My final challenge along the lines of this quest.

As a monomind, I can't imagine the complexity that a multiple would work with in order to do what I have been doing here. That step backwards, to just the right time, to reclaim that which was at the beginning, and then to go forward does not seem possible in a practical sense. I think I've just gone over my head. But, that's okay.

Anyhow, there is a difference also between being disappointed in one's performance or feelings, and feeling shame. I'm working on ridding myself of the shame arising from three different situations, by taking temperate action without declaring wars I can't possibly win.

good talking to you,
tweeter
"Even the very emptiest of the emptiest
Has a false bottom, a false bottom."
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2013, 04:00 AM by tweeter.)
02-17-2013, 03:56 AM
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The People Offline
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#7
RE: Feeling Shame
Increased self awareness can suck for sure but we have found it to be the beginnings of making changes in some area of us. I am hoping that this happens for you. That by knowing how perfectionistic you are you can find small way - along with T - to let some things slide. We struggle with this too. I was confused when a T pointed it out because I am a slob. However, she pointed out that perfection is usually all or nothing. It is also anxiety driven; the cornerstone of switching etc with DID. Well one of them anyway. I also find my perfectionsim is worse when I am already feeling badly about myself.

My friend's son has a condition that i swear has many of the same building blocks as DID. He has Asperger's. Over the years she taught him to tell himjself "it could be worse such and such could have happened." it helps him a lot, even as an adult. He drove on a holiday on his own for the first time. His car was broken into and he lost a lot of stuff. He got himself home by constantly saying "it could have been worse they could have stolen my car". Something like that anyway. No it is not a quick fix. But it is one suggestion.

The up side of perfectionism is that people know they can depend on you to do things right. There is an up side to everything. Even DID. How many North Americans get to live in a Caslte with a dragon that flies by?
I Am My Only Chance For A Hero!
03-06-2013, 11:08 PM
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MakersDozn Offline
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#8
Agree  RE: Feeling Shame
(03-06-2013, 11:08 PM)The People Wrote: How many North Americans get to live in a Caslte with a dragon that flies by?

Yes, this is true. And how many North Americans get to live on a rambling country estate where they never have to shovel snow off the car? Smile

Thank you for all of the things that you've said here. We're working hard in T, and she's helping us a great deal.

Take care,

Charity
03-17-2013, 09:25 PM
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