Having difficulty figuring this one out....
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Unity Offline
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#16
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
Personally i try mostly to identify mecanism or automatism that can have been 'damaged' :p or in other word what is wrong is me Tongue Well following some logic, having something wrong with you mean being victim of something.
05-25-2015, 06:41 PM
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Tangled Web Offline
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#17
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
Very well put cew! That is the level and frame of logic I work on also. I don't identify with the term victim either--I don't hold those feelings about what happened--I agree it is too much to take.

Unity--I am sorry you see yourself as a victim.
I don't believe that if you think there is something wrong with you that that would make you a victim of something. To me that is a very broad generalized statement. There can be lots of things wrong..............doesn't mean you are victim imo.
"You may not remember what someone says or does, but you will never forget how they made you feel" Mac Anderson.
05-25-2015, 07:06 PM
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Unity Offline
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#18
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
On this website they show some statistics of about 95% rate of some symptoms being victim of something. Now ok maybe those figure are wrong, i'm not the one who made those study.

There are still patterns of things being wrong that seem to lead in majority of case to the problem being result of being a victim of something.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2015, 07:15 PM by Unity.)
05-25-2015, 07:11 PM
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Tangled Web Offline
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#19
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
There can be patterns of things being wrong that can also lead the majority cases to the problems because you are a survivor also. Just because you have been victimized by someone doesn't mean that you have to remain a victim--but if that is what you chose to do it is your choice. I chose to see ourselves as survivors -- and will always continue to see us that way............touchy subject for us, just a fyi.
"You may not remember what someone says or does, but you will never forget how they made you feel" Mac Anderson.
05-25-2015, 10:09 PM
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Unity Offline
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#20
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
It's touchy topic to me too Wink i still don't really know where to stand with this

Well idk for example, one thing that started to trigger thing is for example i was on a chat, and i got a bit close with a girl there, like i was feeling i related to her on plenty of things, and then she told me she was under treatement for schizo, and had issue with violence at young age, did boxing, plenty of common point.

The reaction it triggered when i figured that out at that point was rather intense, well it's the moment i started to realize there was something wrong with this, like i was taken by a strong conflict to run away, or feeling still there was something i should look into with this.

Well i already had sort of bad feeling before, but there it was so powerful idk i was really unable to stop this, it was rather scary idk. Really i was feeling like i was dieing or something lol So weird reaction, it lasted for days, i didn't really know what to do with it :p It was lucky i was working home, and only with skype, but at some point this stuff was so overhelming it was really strange.

I swear i'm almost scared to go to that chat server at all because i don't want to see her lol It's nothing wrong with her idk, she didn't do anything special, at first i didn't know how to deal with this, but it's just idk i know it trigger super weird reaction.

Then i started to look around me  the people that i was close to at some point, well all same kind of trouble.

But well i've been through several stage with this idk.

In the same time, with some of things that happened to me, i got also sort of trauma with not seeing sign of victimization in someone close to me, there is a part of me who got sort of paranoiac on this. I know i probably don't have a very healthy approach on that kind of issue or that it's something that disturb me lol

I think one of the hard thing to accept for me is that there can still be other victim today, or that this kind of situation can happen all the time, and often even going silent. Often because of all these issue of not wanting to accept certain thing that will often not really be able to heal if they are not identified for what they are. And on the long run those things can still become destructive.

Survivor doesn't mean unscathed , even if it's sort of hard to accept things that can be part of me, that is related situations or things like this, it's clear thinking in term of victim necessary make some kind of flash.

but i see also in big part for myself being able to approach this kind of things more rationally and without bad tripping as a sign of not being victim of it anymore idk Smile (which is not totally the case for the moment i think he he, but already better i guess :p)
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2015, 04:06 AM by Unity.)
05-26-2015, 03:31 AM
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nats Offline
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#21
Friendship/Support  RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
most of us looking back over our lives will see certain patterns, good and/or bad, cropping up over and over. we think of this as our mind trying to work through certain things but also an unconscious attraction to others who are like us or who we might be able to learn from. unfortunately, if our beginnings were damaging this can mean that until we become more aware of it we can be continually attracted to damaged/damaging people and situations. this is an area where T can be helpful.
Blush Learn how to manage conflict, because the greater the level you can tolerate, the more freedom you will retain - E. Walsh Smile
05-26-2015, 04:22 AM
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Unity Offline
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#22
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
Yes i started to notice this maybe 2/3 years ago, clearly i felt a little bit like wanting to avoid certain persons, and change certain things, but as i ignored all this for very long time, it looks like half of life revolve about this kind of things, well in itself idk for the moment i just try to eliminate the biggest reaction when i'm faced with certain things.

Also i distinguish between 'healed survivors', people who processed things and are not uncomfortable with this, and these people can be very helpful, and i wonder how i could have been doing without them during some moments, and being able to spot more easily situation that can be damaging and knowing a bit better how to deal with this.

Well at the moment, one of my 'best friend' that i see regulary also had issues with this, but he is older, well i'm not sure he is totally healthy or healed, but he is already concious of the whole thing of damaging  and all this =)

There is only with people like this i can speak of certain things. In moment i was very bad, well about the moment that the thing happened with the girl on the chat, and that i was also in other things linked with spirituality, he could help me sorting out many things =) Otherwise i don't know what could have happened really because i was going crazy and i didn't know what was going on, but now it's better with this.

Well for example he told me he never been  really victim of violence, his situation is different and his issues are different, but i can see this kind of pattern a bit more clearly now.

I think it really took me weeks to diggest the episode with the other girl at the time i met him because it propulsed me into a spiral in my mind too weird. It's like all my cognitive function were gone and i couldn't know what to do at all.

The weirdest is i'm sure it did exactly the same effect to her, and she could just understand a little bit better than me because of being in therapy etc, so i guess she was more conscious of what was going on, but i'm pretty sure this was completly something weird, and we didn't even speak for very long time, maybe a few time over a few weeks, but there was clearly a strange link, and it was making both of us looking in a mirror and making mutual bad trip, idk what was going on here, but good luck for cognitive behaviorist to figure out this one lol

But well some people also know this kind of things and help dealing with this or understanding what's going on.

Well if anything, i came to the conclusion i can't avoid these issues entirely, and i will be faced with this automatically at certain points in my life, and for the moment it can trigger very weird feelings.

It's like i feel some part of me are broken, and  being in certain situation or around certain people reactivate some things and create big bad trips. I tried vaguely to analyze this with cognitive therapy kind of things but it's too complex.

If i do the cognitive therapy process, to analyze emotional/cognitive/behavioral link, it looks like my mind goes totally blank, and i just feel a mix of terror and sadness, and i'm almost paralyzed or i feel like fainting almost. To a degree i think i can keep functionning like this, but clearly some part of myself is not totally there during those moments.

It's the same when i can feel threatened , or in certain situation or movies.

I looked into panic attack, i asked this to a psy who worked in emergency thing, and it's not panic attack because it's not like my heart race or i don't even have huge physiological symptoms like anxiety/panic.
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2015, 05:01 PM by Unity.)
05-26-2015, 04:37 AM
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Unity Offline
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#23
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
Well another example, a bit more 'adult' but still it's something that shocked me also to a degree.

It's when i watched the series dexter, in the very beginning of the first season, he say something that at some point rita his wife who was also victim of abuse at some point started to heal, and then dexter was worried that her libido would come back and that his own issues would come out.

Well it shocked me because i remember thinking something like this in high school when i was with the girl who had the pb with her father, well we were very close of each other, but i was thinking like having a girl friend at least i don't look like weird being single, and other girls leave me alone, weirdly enough i was not interested too much in sex, but with her it was different, and i though it was nice to be in a relation like this, and well thinking in the same line than dexter with this lol And at that time nobody knew there was a pb with her at all. It was so weird to watch this serie lol 

Even the psy at that time i remember once i took her with me to the psy, and the psy after looked at me like sort of worried or something asking me is there was something wrong with her, but i said no, he asked if everything was going fine with her i said yes , well there was nothing i really noticed at that time, but seing this in dexter it was so weird lol

And these are stuff that happened when i was 14/16 year old, so long time ago like 20 years ago. So if there is this kind of weird attraction to damaging/damaged thing, it was already long time ago. And i was already seing a psy at that time and well i was fine when i was child it was focused on drawing, dream analysis etc , but well it didn't do that much in the situation lol

But i didn't much realize much of this until idk maybe 5/6 years ago i started to see this kind of pattern more clearly. 

Well it's a series etc but also in the first season it's the same that he doesn't remember what happened during his youth, and at some point in the inquiry, he has to deal with a crime scene that make him a flash of something that he can't remember, but make him all dizzy and like wanting to faint and vomit etc like very weird, and usually he is not scared of blood or of this kind of things because he works in it all day. He is not exactly in panic either, or hyper ventaliting, i think the scening of this movie is well done for this.

When this thing of victim and all hit me i think mostly after i talked to the girl on the chat, usually i'm not shy at all with girl, and i don't have problem dealing with most situation, or idk it's very specific things, and the reaction is very strong like this.

Well i had flash like this with milenium and dexter a bit, but also i have plenty of 'dysfunctional behavior' related to many situation it's clear :p and it's lot of situation that has to do with victimization.
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2015, 08:31 AM by Unity.)
05-26-2015, 08:07 AM
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Unity Offline
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#24
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
The funny thing is that i can remember dizains of persons saying me i probably had some issues in a way or another, and not at all in insulting manner or anything, people who were friends or relative, but i would deny this to death, there are plenty of things i couldn't accept somehow.

What i think happenned with the girl on the chat, is that she was a bit new in therapy, and saw plenty of pattern of self destructive behavior or other thing in me, and it made her bad trip to see this in me just as much as it made me bad trip to see her being like this, and for me it really made an electroshock lol

I don't know how that happened, but clearly it's one of the thing that she managed to do is make me realize i had issue and reaction i couldn't explain, and plenty of sign of something wrong, and i think it's in big part due to this  that i also took steps to get better in many aspect.

I'm sure i had also huge same electro shock kind of impact on her on certain things cause i saw her attitude changing very quickly with certain things we talked about too.

But it's clear it's this kind of interaction, well it's not necessarily only with girl but here it was blatent, that for me it's clear it mark of some kind of memory.

Usually i'm used to deal with people with issues, it's not that i don't feel anything in that case, but those are emotion i have no problem figuring out with CBT kind of things.

Here it's clear there was some huge cognitive dissonance that happened, between my cognitive level have more positive view of her, while all my emotional side went on high alert and totally freaked me out with huge negative emotion, but it's not specially targeted at her, but it's definately weird.

If i want to do a bit of DID like analysis of this, to me it look like maybe one of my alter was a victimized girl which i  saw also someone having one as an alter, if i need to picture her she should look a bit like mio in sin city, and plus this girl physically looked like her.


As i was seing she was having some self destructive impusle, it completly short circuited my brain, in a way there is probably some kind mio like protector that wanted to take control to elimiate the threat to this girl, but as the threat was herself it was like total short circuit, plus mixed with the fact of some sexual attraction to her that my mind associated with an hurt girl children, well in the moment it just completly short circuited me. In real life she was few year older than me.

The weirdest is i felt like if i did some thing to deal with unbearable emotion like either using alcohol or drug or other things to help deal with the issue, it would look like she would see this as me hurting myself because of her, so that completly blocked all those impulse that can come during this time.

One evening, she came to the chat, and i don't know why , i instantly felt something was wrong with her, but she didn't say much anything special, but it did ring an alarm bell to me, i asked on the chat if someone knew her because i had a very bad feeling about it. Another girl told me she knew her and that she was fine, i asked her if she can contact her now, she told no, i was feeling total in panic, but she didn't say anything special on the chat at all, so i was still wondering if that could be paranoia or something, and then she came back few dizains of minute after and she did injury herself badly i was like :/ :/

In the same time she told  me very quickly when i met her that she was sick, and was forever single etc so i mean normally i should have avoided her idk.

The girl who told me she knew her told me something like 'ho it doesn't matter, someday she will not miss herself' , i was like pff, in the same time i'm used to that kind of reaction, but well it was really looking like i was the only one who noticed somehing was going wrong, or wanting to  do something about the issue .

Well i talked to her directly after that, i just wanted to make sure everything was fine, but she seemed calmed down, and was going to sleep, well at this point i was not too much worried that much. Then i told her good night sleep well etc and she told me 'i wish you well', my mind sort of interpreted this as 'if you  do something that hurt yourself i will hurt myself because of it' or something alike.

But my bad trip with her started before this, so i was already like in weird connection with her, like a bit talking about our issues and all, but all the time being completly freaked out around her , and in the same time seing that  i was totally in bad trip because of her, but it was before this accident, and it's something that i couldn't control at all and was just completly short circuited my brain.

At some point she told me 'your an unconscous super hero' , i was like pff it's like firing up all my trauma, what a super hero. Maybe i dissociated and something super heroic happened in the meanwhile though. I most remember it was like completly tetanized, it was feeling a bit like if she would harm herself it would harm me or something it was just weird like this. Well she didn't do anything for this really, it was just totally just weird.

Some part of me told me to run away from her directly, but some  part of feel also totally connected to her in a weird manner too and we had exactly same kind of traumatic experience.

Well morality, even if it can be hard to accept the part of me that has been victimized, and that i can maybe dissociate certain things this way to avoid to integrate the painful experience,  then this 'alter' can also be a real person, and is actually a real person, and it's not just something i can compartimentalize in my brain for ever pretending it doesn't exist. Some people doesn't have dissociation :p

And there are plenty of things that are really better approached by accepting also the victimization, and  being aware it can also happen to other person, and that meeting another person who can have similar issue than some alter that i have and that i don't want to accept, without being minimum prepared, it can be really bad or even dangerous i think.
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2015, 09:21 AM by Unity.)
05-27-2015, 01:40 AM
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Unity Offline
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#25
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
Another example of this is another girl i knew via a spiritual forum, she has been victim of a kidnapping, maybe she had some kind of dissociation too, and at some point on the forum she posted a thread about a girl she saw on tv being kidnapped, and she had this same kind of huge reaction, i saw someone was like 'well that happen all the  time', exactly like the friend of the girl on the chat told 'well she does that all the time', i had the impression i was the only one to understand the kind of things she was going through, probably seeing this girl being kidnapped flashed some of her memories, i said something like leave her alone she has the right to cry or something, but i never saw her in such kind of state before, she looked totally deseperate about this issue, and nobody was getting why she was so moved by it.

I didn't really understood what was going on, but i saw all her survival mecanism triggered she was going to blast everyone on the forum who didn't care about it, full rampage, this i know well, and i knew that she needed to be reassured and not feeling threatened or anything, i know a bit how to deal with people in that state for that they calm down and defuse this survival reaction etc but her reaction looked totally weird for anyone who didn't know the context. I told her i was sometime crying alone at night too with a picture of a wolf crying at night, it calmed her she didn't answer back.

This girl is also one of the only person of forum who understood a bit what i have been going through with the  schizo girl on the chat, like total flashing of memory regarding a real life situation of a threat to another person similar to me , it  made me so mad in the exact same fashion than her lol

I felt a bit this kind of connection with this girl on the spiritual forum too, but were like instinctively mutually keeping at bay of each other for some reason, but when i had my bad trip with the girl on the chat, i also realized why i felt connected to her in that manner too, and i felt so sad for her too, but she said something like 'well you see i've been through this too i'm still there, i survived, but i saw it was making her laugth a little that i had this same bad trip she had and i didn't understand anything at what was going on. It was so weird this thing.

It was weird with this girl on the spiritual forum because we went to same strange things exactly at the same period of time without understanding anything at what was going on, it was funny lol

I can tell you in these moment there is no more 'i am not a victim' ar ar Big Grin
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2015, 03:48 PM by Unity.)
05-28-2015, 02:20 AM
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Unity Offline
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#26
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
Little song for the champions survivors Big Grin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaa7aDsIwOM showtek - the world is mine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPgnN30tMXs Marcus Visionary Feat Mr Williamz - Run The World 
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2015, 01:52 AM by Unity.)
05-28-2015, 01:03 PM
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Unity Offline
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#27
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
What i think happen sometime with trauma based dissociation when that happen in childhood or teen is that the mind is not able to process some situation, when this kind of flash happenned with me and the girl, it's clear we saw the information is hard to process even for an adult, that this kind of things can happen, and to understand why some situation became dangerous, so the mind dissociate the experience until it's ready to integrate it. I guess the persons who can't dissociate become schizophrenics.

Even if the dissociation allow to compartimentalize the experience, there can still be trends in common interest to deal with a particular kind of situation, or being in places that don't trigger those memories, which can orient many choices, and social environment.

Maybe those flash happen at a particular moment when the mind think the person can integrate this memory into her relation with everyday world when a similar situation of danger will happen to me or another person. It's in those moment there is a mecanism in the mind that will need to take a memory of previous situation to deal with the new one, that will retrigger all the emotions and the state of mind etc

But when this process of reintegration is over, the person will then most likely be much more capable of dealing with similar situation that a person who didn't live through it,

Semantically ok you can say the person 'has an issue with something' that trigger weird reactions instead of saying victim of something :p =)
05-30-2015, 02:52 AM
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Unity Offline
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#28
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
The thing that shocked me more with episode of the girl on the chat, is when she told me something like you are preying on me because i'm weak, i was like ok i knew i looked like a psycho stalker with her a little, so this part ok, but it's when she told me i thougth she was weak whearas she did boxing, and well she a bit aggressive or having issues with conflict, but had all same interest in life and back ground, and when i realized how she was seing herself as weak and that she had such a bad image of herself it shocked me so much, and she started to talk about her issue and all and i had many thing in common with her, i didn't understand why she was feeling the need to go in therapy, or why she was feeling so bad about it, but in the same time, i was feeling super bad for her, and i couldn't deny the effect of all these things on plenty of areas, and it's when i realized all those trait we had in common were because of being in certain situation in common, and that i had also all those issues in a way even if didn't want to really admit it, she put me down on earth with it a few time, saying i had issues and all, well she was nice, but she was a little scared of me, well not scared in the sense i would hurt her or scare her, because we had some fun and i was more trying to protect her in the absolute, but she was seeing it was making me totally bad trip to see her, and i was realizing plenty of things in the same time, it has put me ko for a little moment lol
05-30-2015, 04:05 AM
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Unity Offline
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#29
RE: Having difficulty figuring this one out....
[Image: 11232065_10153404513706908_3185134560735...e=55F276D4]
06-02-2015, 06:44 AM
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