My Own Worst Enemy?
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MakersDozn Offline
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#1
Caution  My Own Worst Enemy?
Allegra says I should post here. Otherwise I'll keep stuffing the feelings until I blow a f*cking gasket. Well, she didn't say "f*cking," but you know what I mean.

I know how I feel and I know why I feel it. I know what I want and I know why I want it. Doing the psycho-emotionally "healthy" thing would be too easy; life isn't The Brady Bunch. Just because someone knows the "healthy" thing to do doesn't mean that they can snap their fingers and do it.

Right now I want to tell the world to take a flying leap. Nothing against anyone here. Yadda yadda yadda.

Bottom line for the cause of my p*ssiness is that shawn, and perhaps some of the other Babysitters, would like to be out more. I can understand this. But what I believe that for our own safety, we have to show outsiders a defensive front--pushing people away, or at least appearing streetwise enough not to be victimized.

There are two kinds of people in our system: Those who are streetwise and those who aren't. Charity is the Queen of Naive. Or was. Even if disillusioned, she's so emotionally needy that I believe that she can't help but project it. I won't let her neediness put us in danger--not even remotely possible danger, not even for a moment.

The Babysitters are what you'd call "Friends of Charity"--not needy in the same way, but of the same empathetic, other-valuing mindset, which to me represents potential for the same kind of dangerous consequences. Besides, if The Babysitters came out, who would stay inside and watch the kids, keep them safe and separated from all the surface crap that we've been dealing with for so long? We have six Babysitters because we need all six to do what they've been doing. Not. Safe. To. Let. Guard. Down.

Laura and others Volcano
01-20-2015, 03:18 PM
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nats Offline
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#2
RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
not safe, but probably necessary at some point if you're going to keep doing this healing thing. hearing the frustration.
Blush Learn how to manage conflict, because the greater the level you can tolerate, the more freedom you will retain - E. Walsh Smile
01-20-2015, 05:19 PM
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MakersDozn Offline
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Other/All/Unsure   RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
Thanks, nats. Frustration is a good word.

Someone on another forum asked if there were safe situations where the others could possibly come out. I said that maybe there are, but it feels like we have to always be on guard around other people.

So Allegra's saying that we could start by letting these insiders come out when we're alone. Where am I supposed to go while they're around? I have no interest in being around them, and I can't easily go inside. I'm so conditioned to believing that I *have* to be out that I just can't disappear.

Catch-22. My feelings are my feelings, and I don't want to feel like these feelings are being invalidated. I'm not saying that anyone here is doing this, but I'm tired of being the one that has to give in, that has to change. It's somebody else's turn.

Laura and others
01-20-2015, 09:58 PM
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The People Offline
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#4
RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
Can you build a glass wall? That way you can see them but not be with them.
I Am My Only Chance For A Hero!
01-21-2015, 02:51 AM
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Tangled Web Offline
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#5
RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
Hi Laura. I can understand what you are saying here and understand the frustration and anger. I have and still do go through stuff like this.
I don't have an answer for you or for us for that matter. Everyone inside has a "job" to do and now that things are changing they want to come out more also and my question has ALWAYS been well if you start doing that then who is going to do this or that and where the hell am I supposed to go? I don't want there job I have enough of my own sh*t to deal with.
Just because someone knows the "healthy" thing to do doesn't mean that they can snap their fingers and do it.--very true, very true.......it isn't that easy and there are so many other things to consider-safety is a huge one. It sucks when you have things (mostly) working cohesively and then someone comes up and throws a wrench into things and looks to you to figure it out.
It sucks!
"You may not remember what someone says or does, but you will never forget how they made you feel" Mac Anderson.
01-21-2015, 12:25 PM
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MakersDozn Offline
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Other/All/Unsure   RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
Can you build a glass wall? That way you can see them but not be with them.

Great idea, but it won't work for us. We see places inside, but we don't see each other.

Our T cancelled for tonight because of illness. Sucky timing.

Thanks,

Laura and others
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2015, 06:28 PM by MakersDozn.)
01-21-2015, 06:27 PM
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MakersDozn Offline
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#7
Other/All/Unsure   RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
TW,

Thanks for empathizing. We appreciate it.

Laura and others
01-21-2015, 06:29 PM
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orek Offline
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#8
RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
Sorry you're struggling with this. But change is necessary for healing, so maybe the fact that Shawn wants some time out means you all have done such a good job of creating a safe, trusting environment that some insiders are ready to risk some time out. Our T believes everyone inside has a right to experience life on the outside and not be stuck in the past. I can see that, but it means upsetting the balance of things. Then again, if we were working so well in "balance" we probably wouldn't be in therapy, so again, I'm guessing this is a good sign, a sign of good, hard progress made. That doesn't address your struggles or the problems with allowing the change, I'm aware. I don't have any good suggestions for that, I'm afraid. But you all know your system and will find a way. Hang in there.
01-23-2015, 02:39 PM
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MakersDozn Offline
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#9
Friendship/Support  RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
hi orek,

thanks for sticking up for me. Smile

you're right. and i think that deep down, laura knows this and agrees. we think that things will get better for us once our parents' house is sold. and now that we have a new boss. and that someone else that laura didn't like is leaving our office at the end of the month.

shawn
01-23-2015, 04:24 PM
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tweeter Offline
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#10
RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
Hi Laura, I might not have caught on if not for the query serving as post subject. The answer to that is yes. My answer will not be as complete as I would like because I'm far from a conscious knowing how.

I know what the confrontational or avoidant state of mind is. Not the same as self-assertive, even as I had reasoned so. The basic purpose though is to keep order, prevent being poorly treated.

I'm also familiar with the naive. Oh boy, am I ever. First, I have found it be be synonymous with an almost child-like trusting. And, yeah, it can present a hazard. For me, it's my original state in an extreme, because, in my head it is a happy state, and supposed to protect me by neutralizing another person's aggression. Sure, when pigs fly. Add a related addition: I'm in temporary denial as to how rotten people can be, even when I see it coming.

Empathy can graduate to what I'll call extreme sympathy, or, a lack of boundary between understanding and, on some level, experiencing another person's feelings. Maybe we could call it "feeling transference." This lack of boundary, even when microscopic, can become a bond such that one can identify another person's feelings as one's own whether or not that is so to the degree believed, and/or without really knowing enough of the person to make that judgment, but trusting in that bond to the bitter end. It's very hard to know another person, especially a new person, but it can hit the fan after 25 years too.
I think that empathy, trusting and the confrontational or self-assertive all have their place.

That's a study in its own right, which I've pursued in recent years. The results: I'm far less confrontational; can be self-assertive, but am currently prone to shut down in a conversation because of the way I've been treated as an older person. Shall we say I'm misquoted, or not listened to at all, whatever. If I try to correct the situation, I'm told I misunderstood (the h*ll I did), or that I don't know what's best for me but they do (no, that's not right either), or the person (i.e., docs, stare blankly at the wall, and then change the subject). So, I'm looking for situations, which, frankly, are more normal. Ah, to find the normal in an increasingly chaotic human condition.

The thing is, you are what you are, as are other individuals of your inner family. I get that. I also get it that changes are needed. As I see it, this should occur without a sense of loss to anyone.

I made a discovery recently that I don't yet comprehend as well as I would like. So, it's a developmental process. The poles of forceful and more passive energies do have a midpoint in the continuum between them that does not take/push, or receive (passively or actively). That is Neutral energy. What I experienced in another person during a product demo in a hair and skin care store.

I believe that this Neutral demeanor (which can be warm, friendly, and interested, without a falling into the other person or being too forward, and allowing for awareness of safe emotional boundaries for the self in any given situation, without being invasive either in active (pushing away) or passive (absorption) sense), might be part of the answer you're looking for.

Aside from being able to read energy to a greater degree than I have before, which made this observation possible for me, I don't have more of a bread crumb trail to offer. I've gone back and forth like a ping pong ball, as a monomind, because I didn't have a clue of something very real and strong in between. I'm working on finding this in myself in my own way, without it being contrived as how I should be, rather than what I am. Your neutral midpoint could well differ from shawn's or mine. The developmental process, for me, is totally non-verbal, to the point of it being unconscious in nature. I've started to tap into something that feels right in myself. It feels really good. Very much me, but dumping some baggage.

tweeter
"Even the very emptiest of the emptiest
Has a false bottom, a false bottom."
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2015, 06:52 AM by tweeter.)
01-27-2015, 06:29 AM
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MakersDozn Offline
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#11
RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
Howdy,

Thanks for the feedback. The neutral mode is something that we hadn't considered. We assume that because everyone has a subjective POV, no human being can ever be/act fundamentally neutral. But it's worth thinking about.

Laura and others
01-27-2015, 02:40 PM
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tweeter Offline
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#12
RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
I don't know how to describe this adequately. It isn't that the person is emotionally neutral. But there is a natural temperance.

It's the presence of a neutral energy, very ethereal. This sort of thing does not challenge or strongly project, nor seem needy or empty. Those kinds of energies can evoke unwanted responses in people who are easily spooked by assumed competition, or who are aggressive, or, who dominate what is perceived as a weaker person, etc. As I think we both know.

A neutral energy, as I felt it, does not invade the other person's energy space in any way, for any purpose. If I were to give a military equivalent, it would be "at ease." It would be the safest kind of energy for me to embody, and I'd like to learn. For now, I'm happy just to have recognized it.
tweets

P.S.: I hadn't considered it either, not even theoretically.
"Even the very emptiest of the emptiest
Has a false bottom, a false bottom."
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2015, 06:10 PM by tweeter.)
01-27-2015, 06:03 PM
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MakersDozn Offline
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Other/All/Unsure   RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
Thanks for explaining. Hard to relax right now. We have a b*tch of a headache, and we know it's because Charity is upset right now but will not come out and deal with it. She's been having bad dreams again and has unearthed more anger because of it. She doesn't know how to deal with the feelings.

At least I myself am making progress in that I'm able to step back from her problems and not let her feelings leak onto me. It's not that I don't care. It's that Charity needs to solve her own problems. And you know how I feel about minors taking on responsibilities that belong to the bigs.

We need to make dinner now. I'd really like to take some Tylenol for the headache, but Allegra thinks that if we numb the pain, we'll prevent Charity from dealing with the cause of it. F*ck that. I'm not going to perpetuate physical pain just to help Charity.

The pain is moving down to the right side of our neck. If we still have a headache by the time we finish making dinner, I'm taking the Tylenol, no matter what Allegra says.

Laura and others
01-27-2015, 07:05 PM
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tweeter Offline
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#14
RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
I'm thinking the opposite: that not relieving the pain prevents dealing, and also trains a habit that can escalate into more than physical distress.
Ordinarily, I might remain silent on this. The phrase, "Safety first," is my motivation.

I get headaches, mostly due to illness at this point. It's not unheard of for a person to develop spasms within a disturbed muscular area (with an injury, etc.), or radiating from a headache, whatever its cause. Doctors sometimes treat that with meds. I'm not suggesting that.

Thing is, even without a particularly bad headache, there are certain adjoining areas of spasm, such as what you described, which should not be allowed to run their course.
The sides of neck (home of the carotids), and also, for me, going right up the middle at back of neck (with possible cooperation from the brachial plexus).
So, in an uncharacteristic way for this website, I'm asking you to reconsider, if you are still uncomfortable when you wake, or in the future, please take Tylenol.

I wasn't born unusually spastic, but it happened to me. I realized how last year. Explains a lot.

your friend,
tweeter

_______________________________________
P.S.:

The Japanese make heavenly pillows in different sizes, stuffed with Buckwheat Husks (specify unscented). I prefer the ones that are approx. 14"x7.5" or 17"x10". I use them all the time. These are specifically neck pillows, and they work! I bought them in SF. The owner of the store, which was a wonderful place, retired some years back, and the store was replaced by a similar business. Haven't been to that one. I found the website, and would order from them.
http://neatasianthings.com/pillows---buckwheat.html
"Even the very emptiest of the emptiest
Has a false bottom, a false bottom."
01-28-2015, 08:29 AM
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MakersDozn Offline
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#15
Just talking  RE: My Own Worst Enemy?
Thanks for the link to the pillow site. We took a quick look.

Having a "crunchy" (their word) pillow doesn't appeal to us, and we've tried memory foam and found it uncomfortable because it was made for someone with a longer neck.

After we posted last night, we copied the post onto our blog and onto another multi site. Then we took the Tylenol. It helped some. (Agree with your statement about not relieving the pain, BTW.)

Charity and Mary were out talking to each other this morning as they got us ready for work. The two of us didn't come out until we were walking to the train. Right now, Charity's feelings have settled in the middle of the right side of our back, up through the right-rear of our neck. We have T tonight, but we'd be surprised if Charity came out then.

Laura, Allegra, and others
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2015, 02:32 PM by MakersDozn.)
01-28-2015, 02:31 PM
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