One of THOSE days

[Tangled Web]

Hi All. Was just wondering if anyone has ever had one of these days............

I went to therapy today and was feeling quite proud of myself because the thoughts I was having....I was able to articulate them very well and was standing behind my thoughts because it was what I believed..........And I guess I just thought that is what everyone believed and there was nothing wrong with it. WELL my T reiterated my words back to me only using a "healthier" way of saying what I said and all of a sudden it didn't feel like my beliefs were right at ALL! This happened more than once today in the session.
I started to realize WOW my beliefs and thoughts are NOT right and realizing just how much is actually there .......like how much work is actually needed to be done inside.
Example........We were talking about when someone is in a desperate situation and reaches out and asks for help like if they had no food, lets say......and you step in to help them but when you do that the person who needs the help says no to some things that offered......my T doesn't think it isn't wrong to ask for what they need or want and they are allowed to be chose what they want and what they don't. But I was always taught beggars can't be choosers and you should just be grateful for what you are given. But when she put the words together that they are asking for what they need, it put a different spin on things for me and completely conflicted with our thought belief system and realized how messed up our thought system is...........I know I am not explaining this right but it is the best I can do.......... So we were wondering.......
Has anyone ever experienced this?
Just realized in an instant how dysfunctional your thinking actually is?
That is what happened to us today......don't know what to do with that information but we did realized that today and it shook our foundation a little bit.
Tangled

[nats]

sounds like a really useful exercise - it's also useful to remember how thoroughly dysfunctional, by the definitions used in T, much of our mainstream beliefs and social practices are. You don't have to have an abuse background to have a lot of dysfunctional beliefs ;-)

[tweeter]

(10-23-2013, 05:40 PM)nats Wrote: sounds like a really useful exercise - it's also useful to remember how thoroughly dysfunctional, by the definitions used in T, much of our mainstream beliefs and social practices are. You don't have to have an abuse background to have a lot of dysfunctional beliefs ;-)

I second those motions, so to speak.
tweeter

[tweeter]

Tangled, I've realized to the point of being able to see it, that people might see me as different from how I see myself, or different from my intended presentation. Simply because their eyes are not my eyes, and my agendas have little to do with theirs.
Not so simple: as an older person, I find myself being humored and invalidated. At those times (i.e. in contacts with the medical industry), I can't find anything of me reflected in their eyes.

So, I'm going to simplify what I project, which I probably should have done a long time ago.

tweeter

[nats]

(10-23-2013, 11:30 PM)tweeter Wrote: So, I'm going to simplify what I project, which I probably should have done a long time ago.

wondering whether that may be appropriate for all (or most) of us

[tweeter]

(10-24-2013, 06:25 AM)nats Wrote:

(10-23-2013, 11:30 PM)tweeter Wrote: So, I'm going to simplify what I project, which I probably should have done a long time ago.

wondering whether that may be appropriate for all (or most) of us

I relax here. Sometimes I come up with something really useful that doesn't take up a whole page. Yay!!

I think that's a great idea. I started yesterday, without realizing. It worked.
If there's something about a person that is unusual, or just different, from the people being interacted with, they might be confused and make up a mythology of assumptions based on their own history and associations (complete with costumes (joke)) to explain the nature of the new arrival on the scene. Better to avoid that mess, and SIMPLIFY. It's not a lie. Just less deep.
It might feel lonely not to be able to be one's total self all the time. I felt it was dishonest. That's not so. I have to choose my battles and my friends in a less helpless fashion.
Thanks for thinking out loud.
tweets

[nats]

(10-25-2013, 09:40 AM)tweeter Wrote: If there's something about a person that is unusual, or just different, from the people being interacted with, they might be confused and make up a mythology of assumptions based on their own history and associations (complete with costumes (joke)) to explain the nature of the new arrival on the scene. Better to avoid that mess, and SIMPLIFY. It's not a lie. Just less deep...

think so too. it often happens naturally - e.g. when stating your professional identity ("I'm a dentist... housewife... teacher.., etc") but can as easily happen in other aspects of life. perhaps as much as simplifying it's about focusing on our essential commonalities with those with whom we're interacting and ignoring the bigger, messier ways in which we may be quite different.

[tweeter]

(10-25-2013, 04:00 PM)nats Wrote:

(10-25-2013, 09:40 AM)tweeter Wrote: If there's something about a person that is unusual, or just different, from the people being interacted with, they might be confused and make up a mythology of assumptions based on their own history and associations (complete with costumes (joke)) to explain the nature of the new arrival on the scene. Better to avoid that mess, and SIMPLIFY. It's not a lie. Just less deep...

think so too. it often happens naturally - e.g. when stating your professional identity ("I'm a dentist... housewife... teacher.., etc") but can as easily happen in other aspects of life. perhaps as much as simplifying it's about focusing on our essential commonalities with those with whom we're interacting and ignoring the bigger, messier ways in which we may be quite different.

_______________________________________________________
What you refer to is a structure, or cover, that serves to satisfy curiosity and avoid questions you don't want asked. It can be true or fictional. I like to go for truth. But, my truth is a failure to succeed because I didn't know how to find my place.

My 6th grade teacher had a fix on me, which she took so seriously that she approached my mother. Mrs. E. thought I was an artist (she already knew I could act) and should be educated in an art to the degree that I could financially prosper. That, even though I was a very smart girl (an underachiever), I would be better off finding my own way, rather than being turned into a little intellectual. My mother took Mrs. E's evaluation as an insult. We got home. Just as I was about to say that I would like to follow the advice, her rant started. I didn't have a chance, which is exactly what this parent wanted. If she couldn't live thru me, I wouldn't be permitted to live either.

Fast forward to a job with a clerical title, in a highly intellectual venue. I got a college degree, but it was a waste of time. I hated school. I wanted to learn how to Do something. I didn't know what. Anyhow, it's a sure thing I needed a cover occupation for the joy of it, for money, human expression.

There was a lost opportunity under bazaar circumstances, which I shouldn't have run from. What a life that could have been! Another before that one, that would have been fun. I was living with an ab*s*ve parent, and didn't have the confidence to take on something that many girls would have done almost anything for. I can be very brave. In other ways, pathetically timid. The same pattern played out in 2011 when there was an open opportunity of unknown extent, and I had an *b*s*ve home life that prevented me from being me, being free.

The bottom line is that I don't want to mention what I did for work. The subject matter served me well, etc. Honest work. I'm ashamed that my status was nowhere. Honestly, I was bored, finished my chores very quickly and spent time studying people and ideas. Had a brief, informal, conversation with one of the profs. He said he felt I was onto something, and shouldn't let anything stop me.

Whatever, I can't talk openly about myself. I've done so more than I should have because I thought that this sort of thing was the legacy of mankind. Now, I think, it could have been.
I await another opportunity. I continue to work at what I am (whatever that is), which includes evading efforts to stop me, and not getting in my own way. Also, dealing with illness. I don't have much bandwidth left for commonalities in what has come to be a divide and conquer world. I find it easy to talk to people, short-term.
One of the few things I rejoice in at this point is my individualistic nature. Yeah, there's a bit of ham in me. Gets me into trouble too.

Well, sharing myself and sharing an experience do not necessarily have to occur to the same degree at the same time.

Sorry this is so long and convoluted. Fragmented by necessity. Like being alone on a raft on the ocean of water, but there are other rafts out there. That's when the sense of commonality crosses over.
tweets

[Tangled Web]

What you refer to is a structure, or cover, that serves to satisfy curiosity and avoid questions you don't want asked. It can be true or fictional. I like to go for truth. But, my truth is a failure to succeed because I didn't know how to find my place.

A very interesting way to start this thread tweets. Truth..........that is what we struggle with. Some days I seek out the truth and end up with glimpse of it and think fictional is better and go there instead. Then we question.......is THIS the truth or is it just another lie? How do you know? How can you tell? To assume everything is lie seems to be the safer way to go, people tell lies, your past is a lie, always doubting the words that come out of people's mouth and assume they are lying. It is easier that way for us it seems. Everything was always based on lies our whole entire life so how are we able to identify what TRUTH really is? I guess that is our question.........
T

[tweeter]

(10-28-2013, 01:53 AM)Tangled Web Wrote: What you refer to is a structure, or cover, that serves to satisfy curiosity and avoid questions you don't want asked. It can be true or fictional. I like to go for truth. But, my truth is a failure to succeed because I didn't know how to find my place.

A very interesting way to start this thread tweets. Truth..........that is what we struggle with. Some days I seek out the truth and end up with glimpse of it and think fictional is better and go there instead. Then we question.......is THIS the truth or is it just another lie? How do you know? How can you tell? To assume everything is lie seems to be the safer way to go, people tell lies, your past is a lie, always doubting the words that come out of people's mouth and assume they are lying. It is easier that way for us it seems. Everything was always based on lies our whole entire life so how are we able to identify what TRUTH really is? I guess that is our question.........
T

_________________________________________
Thank you, Tangled.
Right now, I'm struggling with issues of increasing dishonesty in America, and the world in general.
TRUTH has always been an iffy term to me, and I don't use the word much. I'm not one to believe in absolutes. Interesting that I used it above. I hadn't noticed. It amounts to self-definition.

Distortion of what can be called Truth, because it is so to someone, is Not always due to lies, but to perceptions and learned methods of observation. What is presented as truth, or fact, might be opinion or belief, even in science. (continued later)

With exceptions, I had contact with many trustworthy people in high school, and I was a trusting and very straightforward person until a few years ago.

I focus along the lines of Honesty. How do I know the difference? Anyone can be fooled. I've worked on this for a long time. I read people. Sometimes it happens, casually, by itself, sometimes I focus on a person's intent. I don't make it a project for everyone I meet. Any interaction with a doctor receives full attention, for my protection.
At my best, I am relaxed and dispassionate in judgment and action.


On to science and the medical:
Sloppy science or sloppy/deceptive reporting is a real problem in the medical field, in the energy harvesting field, etc.. This can be due to incomplete reporting of medical research, or attempted suppression of knowledge of environmental effects in the energy industry. Re the latter, a beaut was reported in Canada.

Lines can be crossed, and that which was theory, conjecture, intelligent guessing, abbreviated reporting of patient data, etc., for instance, can by presentation and intent become blatant lying. The reasons given are usually some form of cost effectiveness (unbelievable bs), adherence to a protocol across the board, etc. In some cases (yes, mine included), it's criminal. I'll stop on this.

I'm wondering at what point the nonsense I've seen will graduate from withholding data, to lying to the patient about test results.
Here's a portion of the terms a patient has to agree to in order to be able to sign in on a particular website, and get test results. The facility name will not be mentioned or inferred. I will not sign up. In fact, I think I'm discontinuing any contact with this place because of what has occurred.

(the facility)_ PROVIDES (this website) "AS IS" WITH ALL FAULTS AND MAKES NO WARRANTIES OR GUARANTEES OF ANY KIND, AND EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND OR NATURE, WHETHER EXPRESSS, IMPLIED, OR STATUTORY REGARDING (the website). INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE ACCURACY, COMPLETENESS, CORRECTNESS, TIMELINESS OR USEFULNESS OF ANY INFORMATION, PROGRAMS, PRODUCTS, SERVICES, OR OTHER MATERIAL PROVIDED THROUGH (the website), OR OF RELIABILITY,