<![CDATA[Mosaic Minds Community Forums - All Forums]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/ Wed, 22 May 2013 11:27:10 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[Email.]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=849 Sun, 19 May 2013 23:14:32 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=849
For about a year, starting in 2005, I did volunteer work at a store near where I used to live. I thought they were just some New Age Yoga religious thing, but they turned out to be a d*ng*r**s c*lt. I told them up front I wasn't interested in affiliating with a sp.organization. The store was pleasant and air conditioned. I worked a few hours a week on financial records. I innocently told person I worked for that they used the same energy in their massages to break up energy blockages as did martial artists. I had a couple of sessions, which worked. Eventually, I was invited to a special service at their church. As a sp. researcher, I did consider going, but Googled the person in charge and saw that he was ev*l, without a doubt. I told them it would be inappropriate for me to attend, and that I would be terminating my volunteer work at the store. This was politely done.

However, some time after, I was att*ck*d from behind (by touch) as I sat in a neighborhood coffee house. This sort of thing would not hold up in a court of law, and no one else was aware of what happened anyhow. It was the person I had worked for. I managed to get away and heal myself. I wrote to the manager that any further approaches in any way were not welcome by me. My tone was not polite. That was in 2006.

Have I come to h*rm because of them? Yes, but not in a manner that I would discuss here. I'm a good person, a monomind, not without flaws, but not rejecting myself in any way. I am concerned with certain aspects of the human condition, and my curiosity, modest abilities, and some poor choices, have gotten me into trouble more than once.
There's no help forthcoming, except for what I can find for myself, in myself. As a moderate individualist/iconoclast sort, I don't exactly win popularity contests. Besides, I would learn from the help given, even if that was unintended. In a word, I'm scr*w*d.

About an hour ago, I got an email. I'm on an in-house mailing list, from which I should have been removed. I probably was, and reinstated. It seems the person I worked with is critically ill. Can't say I care, given what they've done to me, which I had begged years ago for them to stop.

There are about 30 email addresses on this thing, and I figured I'd just block them, but it doesn't work that way. Further email from these m*nst*rs can be made to go to trash bin. I want it to be blocked (out of my sight), or rejected and returned to sender. I wrote to email place and asked what can be done? Like they're going to answer.
Sure, I can think of alternatives like changing my email addy. I don't want to do that. I have too much to do in too short a time now, and there's a lot involved. Besides, I have a lot invested in that name.... But, I might have to. There is no doubt in my mind that I will be contacted further. I will not answer.

My life has gone from p**nful to being at the tip of an abyss of chaos since the end of March (a traditionally very bad time for me for some reason). This includes a misdiagnosis which led to medicating me with something that made me more ill. Then I went to a dermatologist, who did a lot mess up my case, along with shall be say an unkindness that occurred during minor s*rg*ry to remove what he was trying to fool me into thinking was a skin tag, but which I was later told was biopsied as a wart. I'm not sure that is so either, and have doubts that the procedure was done properly. It is an increasing policy to play head games and lie to people over 65. I can't believe how I'm spoken to by medical professionals. I just let them talk. If they're not trustworthy and don't respect me as a human being, I want to know up front. The whole thing is so out of hand.
SP follows:
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It is my feeling that this world, universe, is in a h*ly war. This is coming from an atheist, of a complex kind. I've engaged something I don't understand. It's not a matter of political parties, or religion one-upmanship, or economic theories, or truth vs fantasy re terrorists, etc. It's something else.
Sometimes a voice of reason shows up in a newspaper, but it's drowned out. Life as we have known it is disappearing, replaced by war and bs buzz words. In my experience with the unknown, there is too much intent consciousness to be ignored.

I know I have to find my own way out.

Thank you,
tweeter]]>
For about a year, starting in 2005, I did volunteer work at a store near where I used to live. I thought they were just some New Age Yoga religious thing, but they turned out to be a d*ng*r**s c*lt. I told them up front I wasn't interested in affiliating with a sp.organization. The store was pleasant and air conditioned. I worked a few hours a week on financial records. I innocently told person I worked for that they used the same energy in their massages to break up energy blockages as did martial artists. I had a couple of sessions, which worked. Eventually, I was invited to a special service at their church. As a sp. researcher, I did consider going, but Googled the person in charge and saw that he was ev*l, without a doubt. I told them it would be inappropriate for me to attend, and that I would be terminating my volunteer work at the store. This was politely done.

However, some time after, I was att*ck*d from behind (by touch) as I sat in a neighborhood coffee house. This sort of thing would not hold up in a court of law, and no one else was aware of what happened anyhow. It was the person I had worked for. I managed to get away and heal myself. I wrote to the manager that any further approaches in any way were not welcome by me. My tone was not polite. That was in 2006.

Have I come to h*rm because of them? Yes, but not in a manner that I would discuss here. I'm a good person, a monomind, not without flaws, but not rejecting myself in any way. I am concerned with certain aspects of the human condition, and my curiosity, modest abilities, and some poor choices, have gotten me into trouble more than once.
There's no help forthcoming, except for what I can find for myself, in myself. As a moderate individualist/iconoclast sort, I don't exactly win popularity contests. Besides, I would learn from the help given, even if that was unintended. In a word, I'm scr*w*d.

About an hour ago, I got an email. I'm on an in-house mailing list, from which I should have been removed. I probably was, and reinstated. It seems the person I worked with is critically ill. Can't say I care, given what they've done to me, which I had begged years ago for them to stop.

There are about 30 email addresses on this thing, and I figured I'd just block them, but it doesn't work that way. Further email from these m*nst*rs can be made to go to trash bin. I want it to be blocked (out of my sight), or rejected and returned to sender. I wrote to email place and asked what can be done? Like they're going to answer.
Sure, I can think of alternatives like changing my email addy. I don't want to do that. I have too much to do in too short a time now, and there's a lot involved. Besides, I have a lot invested in that name.... But, I might have to. There is no doubt in my mind that I will be contacted further. I will not answer.

My life has gone from p**nful to being at the tip of an abyss of chaos since the end of March (a traditionally very bad time for me for some reason). This includes a misdiagnosis which led to medicating me with something that made me more ill. Then I went to a dermatologist, who did a lot mess up my case, along with shall be say an unkindness that occurred during minor s*rg*ry to remove what he was trying to fool me into thinking was a skin tag, but which I was later told was biopsied as a wart. I'm not sure that is so either, and have doubts that the procedure was done properly. It is an increasing policy to play head games and lie to people over 65. I can't believe how I'm spoken to by medical professionals. I just let them talk. If they're not trustworthy and don't respect me as a human being, I want to know up front. The whole thing is so out of hand.
SP follows:
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

It is my feeling that this world, universe, is in a h*ly war. This is coming from an atheist, of a complex kind. I've engaged something I don't understand. It's not a matter of political parties, or religion one-upmanship, or economic theories, or truth vs fantasy re terrorists, etc. It's something else.
Sometimes a voice of reason shows up in a newspaper, but it's drowned out. Life as we have known it is disappearing, replaced by war and bs buzz words. In my experience with the unknown, there is too much intent consciousness to be ignored.

I know I have to find my own way out.

Thank you,
tweeter]]> <![CDATA[My Computer Bit It]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=848 Sat, 18 May 2013 21:04:05 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=848 <![CDATA[residential treatment]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=846 Sun, 12 May 2013 16:24:01 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=846 Feeling really down and scared and could use your support. My son has become increasingly angry and destructive. It became so bad that my mother filed a restraining order and police showed up and ordered us to leave our home within ten minutes. We are in a local hotel for now. I believe he requires a psychiatric stay as well as residential treatment in order to learn coping skills. I hope he can be helped. I am starting to discover that one of his parts might be responsible for editing photos and sending harassing emails. I am so confused! I don't know how much of his history is real and how much is from his own possible delusions. I am really scared. He has never been away from home and I want him to be safe. This is the toughest thing I will ever have to do ( I hope ).
Has anyone here ever been to a inpatient facility? Were they able to help? What do you think I can expect? I don't want him drugged and magically cured within a few weeks. I want real treatment for him.
Please keep us in your thoughts. We don't have much of a support system currently but I am hoping if my son gets the help he requires we will be able to resume a healthy lifestyle.
I wish I could make him feel better myself but I can't!]]> Feeling really down and scared and could use your support. My son has become increasingly angry and destructive. It became so bad that my mother filed a restraining order and police showed up and ordered us to leave our home within ten minutes. We are in a local hotel for now. I believe he requires a psychiatric stay as well as residential treatment in order to learn coping skills. I hope he can be helped. I am starting to discover that one of his parts might be responsible for editing photos and sending harassing emails. I am so confused! I don't know how much of his history is real and how much is from his own possible delusions. I am really scared. He has never been away from home and I want him to be safe. This is the toughest thing I will ever have to do ( I hope ).
Has anyone here ever been to a inpatient facility? Were they able to help? What do you think I can expect? I don't want him drugged and magically cured within a few weeks. I want real treatment for him.
Please keep us in your thoughts. We don't have much of a support system currently but I am hoping if my son gets the help he requires we will be able to resume a healthy lifestyle.
I wish I could make him feel better myself but I can't!]]> <![CDATA[looking for advise from other Marines]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=844 Sat, 11 May 2013 12:03:12 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=844
Spoiler(Show)
f*ck the rosey rotgut
idiot who can't think how her actions will affect everyone else.

I have a month but, I am more than sorry i asked a civilian for help with it.Volcano People say "Army" means not aren't ready to be Marines Yet. but, that's wrong that's what civilian means.

Lizzy age 10 junior inner-Marine for Dreamers system]]>
Spoiler(Show)
f*ck the rosey rotgut
idiot who can't think how her actions will affect everyone else.

I have a month but, I am more than sorry i asked a civilian for help with it.Volcano People say "Army" means not aren't ready to be Marines Yet. but, that's wrong that's what civilian means.

Lizzy age 10 junior inner-Marine for Dreamers system]]> <![CDATA[Go AWAY!]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=843 Thu, 09 May 2013 19:54:59 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=843 <![CDATA[Scared, Skeptical, and have no idea]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=842 Thu, 09 May 2013 16:43:16 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=842
Fin]]>
Fin]]> <![CDATA[What am I gonna do....]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=841 Tue, 07 May 2013 20:42:38 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=841
as of now i have three... count 'em.... three! adolescent clients.

i never planned on working with teenagers.

teenagers scare me!

i wasn't a typical teenager, and never understood teenagers when i was one.

oooooh.... what am i thinking



there... terrified rant over.... breathe... i can do this ... breathe...]]>
as of now i have three... count 'em.... three! adolescent clients.

i never planned on working with teenagers.

teenagers scare me!

i wasn't a typical teenager, and never understood teenagers when i was one.

oooooh.... what am i thinking



there... terrified rant over.... breathe... i can do this ... breathe...]]> <![CDATA[Just registered here.]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=840 Tue, 07 May 2013 11:25:20 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=840
Just registered here so thought I'd better do the ol... introduction bit on behalf of the Fireflies.

k so my name is Michael, and I'm probably the most outspoken of us. I'm 16, and male, but the body is female and much older than me.

I really don't know what to say about us really. We are fairly stable most of the time these days. We've had heaps of therapy in the past. I personally don't like most therapists! and avoid them. We are currently off all meds and just being sort of 'supervised' or what ever in case we relapse or something. We're not interested in integration, just co-operative and empowered living.

So anyways... yeah. Guess she was DXed 10 or so years ago. might be 11 now. But i don't consider that I'm DXed with anything. I'm just me! I've changed a lot over the years since they first dragged me back out to the surface. Use to be quite angry at the world, but less so now.

Just interested in meeting others like me, who will accept me as I am. Still trying to accept myself sometimes!

so would like to make friend of all ages.

Some of the others may talk too.

Michael]]>
Just registered here so thought I'd better do the ol... introduction bit on behalf of the Fireflies.

k so my name is Michael, and I'm probably the most outspoken of us. I'm 16, and male, but the body is female and much older than me.

I really don't know what to say about us really. We are fairly stable most of the time these days. We've had heaps of therapy in the past. I personally don't like most therapists! and avoid them. We are currently off all meds and just being sort of 'supervised' or what ever in case we relapse or something. We're not interested in integration, just co-operative and empowered living.

So anyways... yeah. Guess she was DXed 10 or so years ago. might be 11 now. But i don't consider that I'm DXed with anything. I'm just me! I've changed a lot over the years since they first dragged me back out to the surface. Use to be quite angry at the world, but less so now.

Just interested in meeting others like me, who will accept me as I am. Still trying to accept myself sometimes!

so would like to make friend of all ages.

Some of the others may talk too.

Michael]]> <![CDATA[A stroll around town]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=838 Mon, 06 May 2013 00:36:26 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=838
We were initially diagnosed about 25 years ago. Things were very quiet for a while and then events caused a series of tidal waves that we are currently experiencing. We didn't know how to deal with it then and we have no idea how to deal with it now.

The spinning never stops. Wish we knew how.

Fin]]>
We were initially diagnosed about 25 years ago. Things were very quiet for a while and then events caused a series of tidal waves that we are currently experiencing. We didn't know how to deal with it then and we have no idea how to deal with it now.

The spinning never stops. Wish we knew how.

Fin]]> <![CDATA[New but long overdue]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=835 Fri, 03 May 2013 04:22:09 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=835
I'm very pleased to have found this site, as it was mentioned in the back of the Dissociative Identity Disorder Sourcebook I just finished reading.

I look forward to meeting you all and supporting you all as I can.
-Ripley]]>
I'm very pleased to have found this site, as it was mentioned in the back of the Dissociative Identity Disorder Sourcebook I just finished reading.

I look forward to meeting you all and supporting you all as I can.
-Ripley]]> <![CDATA[A loss]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=834 Thu, 02 May 2013 07:55:50 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=834
Later that day I BCCd many friends, told them off my loss and then told them that I needed to tell them what I never told him. How important they were. That while I ruffled feathers and got angry at times I cared about each and every one of them. Just as i do the people here.

The friendships i form here are different as i do not get to see the people I talk with. We don`t play games or just have fun. But I do still care about you and am happy that you are in my life.Heart]]>
Later that day I BCCd many friends, told them off my loss and then told them that I needed to tell them what I never told him. How important they were. That while I ruffled feathers and got angry at times I cared about each and every one of them. Just as i do the people here.

The friendships i form here are different as i do not get to see the people I talk with. We don`t play games or just have fun. But I do still care about you and am happy that you are in my life.Heart]]> <![CDATA[We're back]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=833 Sat, 27 Apr 2013 14:56:39 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=833 <![CDATA[Connections]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=832 Fri, 26 Apr 2013 16:51:23 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=832 When I saw our T this week I was able to actually SEE her trying to help us. This was a new observation to me. And while talking to her, words just seemed to fall out of my mouth and thinking about it after, the realizations came to me. I see 3D people in general as not human as a way to protect myself from being hurt. It also makes connections impossible to make, which also lessons the chance of being hurt. This on the other hand also keeps me feeling isolated and alone, something that I desperately want to change. So in talking to T this week I realized this. She listened to me and appeared to understand what I was saying. Then I was able to see her try to help me. I wrote her out an email with some of my wants/needs on it and had to receive permission from her to send it.....(not something I have to do on a regular basis, but I needed permission for myself) Any ways everything worked out well. I am finding it hard to believe right now, but I took a HUGE risk and it worked out well so far. She wasn't angry or upset at me, in fact she actually told me she was proud of me for having the courage to do that. That is something I am definitely not accustomed to hearing.

I have realized that even though my old T has helped me in some ways, and I don't want to discredit her for that........but I spent 4 years with her thinking I was doing "this...T with her......."wrong. I thought that I had to do it on my own. I thought my needs/wants were something I had to figure out for myself, she encouraged independence, which was something I have always had. I have always thought I had to do things on my own, so what she was trying to tell me kinda fit in with all the messages I gave myself. Even though I knew I couldn't do it on my own I figured I was just doing it wrong and couldn't figure out how to do it right. And when I was at my wits end, and got tired of spinning and trying to do it right and always failing miserably, we decided maybe it was time to look elsewhere because something was just not right.

So now I am with new T and I thought to try one more time to tell her what I was thinking and how I couldn't figure it out so I could do it "right" and she says to me...........you don't have to do it on your own, and she wants to help me, by showing me, teaching me, and she says she will do that until I am able to do it for myself. She told me it is not wrong. WOAH!!!! I am in shock a lil bit and terrified at the same time. But it feels kinda good at the same time. Maybe this is what making a connection feels like.
Any ways I guess I will see how this all plays out on Tuesday. I will be keeping my fingers crossed until then hoping what she says is what she actually means.
TW]]> When I saw our T this week I was able to actually SEE her trying to help us. This was a new observation to me. And while talking to her, words just seemed to fall out of my mouth and thinking about it after, the realizations came to me. I see 3D people in general as not human as a way to protect myself from being hurt. It also makes connections impossible to make, which also lessons the chance of being hurt. This on the other hand also keeps me feeling isolated and alone, something that I desperately want to change. So in talking to T this week I realized this. She listened to me and appeared to understand what I was saying. Then I was able to see her try to help me. I wrote her out an email with some of my wants/needs on it and had to receive permission from her to send it.....(not something I have to do on a regular basis, but I needed permission for myself) Any ways everything worked out well. I am finding it hard to believe right now, but I took a HUGE risk and it worked out well so far. She wasn't angry or upset at me, in fact she actually told me she was proud of me for having the courage to do that. That is something I am definitely not accustomed to hearing.

I have realized that even though my old T has helped me in some ways, and I don't want to discredit her for that........but I spent 4 years with her thinking I was doing "this...T with her......."wrong. I thought that I had to do it on my own. I thought my needs/wants were something I had to figure out for myself, she encouraged independence, which was something I have always had. I have always thought I had to do things on my own, so what she was trying to tell me kinda fit in with all the messages I gave myself. Even though I knew I couldn't do it on my own I figured I was just doing it wrong and couldn't figure out how to do it right. And when I was at my wits end, and got tired of spinning and trying to do it right and always failing miserably, we decided maybe it was time to look elsewhere because something was just not right.

So now I am with new T and I thought to try one more time to tell her what I was thinking and how I couldn't figure it out so I could do it "right" and she says to me...........you don't have to do it on your own, and she wants to help me, by showing me, teaching me, and she says she will do that until I am able to do it for myself. She told me it is not wrong. WOAH!!!! I am in shock a lil bit and terrified at the same time. But it feels kinda good at the same time. Maybe this is what making a connection feels like.
Any ways I guess I will see how this all plays out on Tuesday. I will be keeping my fingers crossed until then hoping what she says is what she actually means.
TW]]> <![CDATA[A little sad tonight]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=831 Thu, 25 Apr 2013 23:30:28 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=831 wham! The blues are here again. I keep spiraling down. I grab myself, but away I go spiraling down. I'll be okay. I just hope it doesn't last too long this time.Sad]]> wham! The blues are here again. I keep spiraling down. I grab myself, but away I go spiraling down. I'll be okay. I just hope it doesn't last too long this time.Sad]]> <![CDATA[hello]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=830 Thu, 25 Apr 2013 23:11:44 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=830 I used to come to the old site once in awhile.This place looks nice.]]> I used to come to the old site once in awhile.This place looks nice.]]> <![CDATA[The first bond]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=829 Wed, 24 Apr 2013 06:44:53 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=829 tweeter]]> tweeter]]> <![CDATA[On touch]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=827 Sun, 21 Apr 2013 22:16:10 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=827
It is hard. We are human and like most humans have the need to be touched. But when someone does it we want to run screaming from the room. We have always known this but never saw it as a fight or flight issue until the topic came up. Sucks. Thank goodness for kitties.

.jpg  face fears.jpg (Size: 45.87 KB / Downloads: 28) ]]>
It is hard. We are human and like most humans have the need to be touched. But when someone does it we want to run screaming from the room. We have always known this but never saw it as a fight or flight issue until the topic came up. Sucks. Thank goodness for kitties.

.jpg  face fears.jpg (Size: 45.87 KB / Downloads: 28) ]]> <![CDATA[Pirate Joke]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=826 Sun, 21 Apr 2013 22:08:01 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=826
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A buckaneer! LOL!]]> <![CDATA[Night time leg cramps fix]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=825 Sat, 20 Apr 2013 01:41:01 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=825
PS: Tonic water tastes like crap. The quinine makes it very bitter. Just pretend it's medicine. Squeeze a little wedge of lemon in it and that helps a bit.]]>
PS: Tonic water tastes like crap. The quinine makes it very bitter. Just pretend it's medicine. Squeeze a little wedge of lemon in it and that helps a bit.]]> <![CDATA[Confused]]> http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=823 Thu, 18 Apr 2013 15:20:29 +0000 http://www.mosaicminds.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=823 .
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I am in my 50s and after years of therapy, T and I felt integration was complete. I've gone to school, completed an LPN course of study and waiting to begin the last year for my RN, a lifelong dream... Meanwhile, I've been seeing T every 3-6 months just as a way of checking in...kind of on maintenance. For the last several months I felt like we were more again, but thought I was making it up... Then for the last two visits T has quietly asked if I have been feeling any others... I didn't admit to it, but asked why she asked and she said she was just wondering. I'll talk to her about it at the next visit, but was wondering if this has happened to anyone else. I didn't expect it at all. Then I read dreamer's post and it sounded a little familiar, so I thought I would post. The new ones aren't familiar and I don't know if they remained hidden or what, but they're talking a lot and the confusion, neediness and arguing feels really familiar and all I can think is I can't go through this again... I can't put the rest of my life on hold again...
Sorry I rambled ...not sure how to say things succinctly.]]> .
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I am in my 50s and after years of therapy, T and I felt integration was complete. I've gone to school, completed an LPN course of study and waiting to begin the last year for my RN, a lifelong dream... Meanwhile, I've been seeing T every 3-6 months just as a way of checking in...kind of on maintenance. For the last several months I felt like we were more again, but thought I was making it up... Then for the last two visits T has quietly asked if I have been feeling any others... I didn't admit to it, but asked why she asked and she said she was just wondering. I'll talk to her about it at the next visit, but was wondering if this has happened to anyone else. I didn't expect it at all. Then I read dreamer's post and it sounded a little familiar, so I thought I would post. The new ones aren't familiar and I don't know if they remained hidden or what, but they're talking a lot and the confusion, neediness and arguing feels really familiar and all I can think is I can't go through this again... I can't put the rest of my life on hold again...
Sorry I rambled ...not sure how to say things succinctly.]]>