On Denial (in answer to nats)

[tweeter]

(03-23-2014, 11:55 AM)Tangled Web Wrote: Hi Tweeter. I knew you were speaking from your personal experience and I didn't mean to invalidate that. (Sorry if this was the case). I can somewhat see where you are coming from and can understand your thoughts and the path they take. I just wanted to put a different spin on things and give another perspective. I agree that believing our parents are good when they are not and getting trapped in that denial is harming to us. I guess looking at the benefits of those beliefs and the risks and making a choice which will be worse is what we do now. I believe one day we will be able to eventually able to see the whole picture without having to deny things, just taking things one step at a time. I also agree denial happens automatically and I like the analogy of the fish on a hook because it does happen fast and you can be completely unaware of it until after the fact.
For me I guess I see denial as a warm fuzzy blanket that protects me from harm and keeps me safe. Not sure how true that actually is. I never really looked at the risks that could be happening while we are in that state. It is definitely something to think about. Thank you for that.

The word "lie" does bother me and you were right in noticing that. I guess it is a trigger word for us and that is my stuff.............but I can see how living in denial can be seen as living in a world filled with lies or even based on lies. Sometimes it hard to find the truth when all you have ever known is the lies...............

Not to be concerned that I felt invalidated by your comments. I was sure that wasn't your intent, and I was fine. I'm also not trying to invalidate you. It seems that our coming from different directions is most enlightening. Thank you.

In seeking to understand your feelings, I backed up to childhood, when fact and fiction sometimes are not clearly divided. It's part of normal development to learn that. I think a child needs to be taught what lying is, via observation and direct instruction. Plenty can go amiss. We both know that.

Actually, the verbalized grief I've encountered re lies and denial occurred in adulthood for the most part. I don't think denial was very operative. I've always been generally super honest, and prone to facing things, rather than turning away. What I've recently realized in the comings and goings of meeting people, especially young kids who just look at you and know what you're about and bring that about, was that I can flee from genuine affection or love because I'm afraid of what follows, what followed when I was a little one. I knew both parents were nuts by age 4. I also knew they didn't love me and it wasn't my fault. If it hadn't been for my grandfather (who passed when I was 4), I don't know what would have happened to me. He was a timid man, unfortunately.

Thing is, outside of my interactions with him, I didn't know how it felt to be normally loved, or to love. Because of what has happened to me over the past 3 years, I went on a journey alone. I realized that my previous associations with men were all wrong for me, and I didn't know the difference.. One way or another, I was lied to, often by men who lied to others, and to themselves.

Because of my upbringing, I was unsocialized, though by nature a trusting and friendly person, accustomed to emotional abuse and some physical, to the point that ... I told a friend of someone we both knew about a situation, without all the details, but the truth as far as it went.. We don't need to go into it to get the point across. Thing is, when he told me "never to let anyone treat me like that again," I didn't know what he was talking about then, and for many years following. It isn't that I didn't think I was worthy of being loved; it was that I didn't know what it meant, or how to search for what suited me.

One could say I was so naive that I didn't understand love, and so abused that I would literally jerk away, or otherwise repel affection.
I didn't realize the latter until a couple of months ago, when I had a memory from infancy. Now I know. By the way, one of my major interests/endeavors is fostering communication between the unconscious and the more verbal and cognitive minds, according to the terms of the unconscious. It took me a long time. Very rewarding work I've done on my own.

As I'm writing this, I'm kind of getting stuck, cause how can one be in denial really, when completely bamboozled by the subject matter?
I feel like a walked thru life in a fog of avoidance, and got hurt anyhow. But, in Jan. of 2011 a chance meeting occurred that could have resulted in a romance, a very close friendship, or a talk with little or no followup. Whatever, it was a matter of two people who had just met and had an effect on each other. I needed the space to see it through. A third person ruined it.

To make a long story short, the trains separated, his going to NY (he doesn't live there) and mine going to MA, and I felt like I died. What happened was that I went into denial. Three months later, after I had been paying attention to my appearance and getting ready to see him again, I looked around and realized that he wasn't coming back. That led to a lot of changes.

That's how I came to equate denial to playing d**d to one's own feelings, and those of others. I also see it in someone else. I still feel that way. It wasn't comforting to me, even though I was also trying to have a roof over my head and not be h*rm*d by the irrational third party (no I was not married, nor in a relationship. Long story.). I eventually got the support to move to NM and then to NY, where I am living in the same building where I spent most of my miserable childhood. The neighborhood is very different than it was in most ways. I'm not one for flashbacks, and have had only one, which gave me an insight I had not suspected. But then, I hadn't asked that question before.

It isn't that I denied my needs. I don't think I knew what they were, just as I didn't have a clue as to how to pursue happiness or a successful life, and I should have had both. I had been groomed for failure by both parents, and socially isolated by them. I fulfilled their prophecy in the past, and now work to reverse the emotional damage done, and not do a repeat performance. The person who is in denial as to what he is doing and feeling, wants to lure me back into that scenario again. I will continue to say "No." I'm 68 and ill. I do what I can.

I realize this is more than you expected. I hope it wasn't too much.
tweeter